Pat Holland’s association with West Ham United as a player was a long and successful one, with the winger making many appearances for them. An FA Cup winner with West Ham in 1975, Pat Holland would also play in the 1976 European Cup Winners Cup final against Anderlecht. However, it was later on as a coach in North London with Spurs, that Pat made a real impression on the youth system/Academy, during two spells with the club. He would join Spurs as an Under 18 coach during the late 1980’s, before later taking charge of the Spurs Reserves side in the last year of his first spell with the club. Pat would later leave Spurs to go to Leyton Orient, to become the manager of their first team. Although he would later return to Spurs upon leaving Leyton Orient in 1997, to become their Youth Team manager at the Spurs Academy, a role that we hold until well into the 2000’s. A very good coach who I had heard a lot of good things about from a lot of former Spurs youth/academy players over the years, I recently had the great pleasure and privilege of interviewing Pat Holland about his long time with Spurs as a coach and as Youth Team manager.

How did you come about joining Spurs as a youth coach during your first spell with the club during the late 1980’s? And could you talk me through your memories of that period of time with Spurs, as Under 18’s coach, and later manager of the Spurs Reserves?

Pat: I was at Leyton Orient at the time, before going to QPR for a year. However, I found the travelling to get there quite difficult. So I ended up going back to Leyton Orient again, but I did have quite close connections with Spurs and John Moncur, and also a man called Dickie Moss, who was a goalkeeping coach and scout. And he was a very good goalkeeping coach with the young players. So anyway, he kept on saying to me that he wanted to get me to Tottenham, and so between John Moncur and Dickie Moss I managed to get into Spurs. The then Spurs youth team manager Keith Blunt had gone to Gillingham with Keith Burkinshaw, and so there were a few names in the hat, but John Moncur put in a very good word for me, and I think that Keith Waldon did as well. So from there I met Terry Venables and got the job. Going to Spurs was a great change from being at Leyton Orient, as they were a fourth division side then, and their facilities were alright. However, when I went to Tottenham it was a different world, as you were surrounded by top players.

At the time Spurs were training at Mill Hill, and you had top players like Gary Lineker, who were already at Spurs when I arrived at the club. So it’s not always easy to go to a big club like that and settle quickly, but the youth players were very good and so was Keith Waldon. They had a way of playing at Spurs which was a lot of technical play, which to me was something I knew a lot about anyway, being a former West Ham player, as that footballing culture was the same at West Ham. I was the head-coach of the second Spurs Under 18 side, and I enjoyed coaching them immensely. Being in charge of the reserves for a while in my first spell at Spurs  was always going to be more difficult. Gerry Francis had arrived at Spurs as the manager, and he’d brought in Des Bulpin as the new youth team manager, which left me in what you’d say was no man’s land. So with Des being in charge of the youth side and Chris Hughton in charge of the reserves, I could have ended up leaving Spurs quite easily at that stage. But I held on and I ended up having a spell with the reserves, which was alright, but I enjoyed coaching the youth side better.

In the same season that I was in charge of the Spurs reserves, the opportunity came along to manage Leyton Orient, and so obviously I went for that job, in what I believe was 1995/96.

You would later return to Spurs in 1997, as their Youth Team manager at the Spurs Academy, until 2006. Could you talk me through your time at the club, and your experiences during those years?

Pat: My second spell with Spurs was brilliant. I’d managed at Leyton Orient and it hadn’t quite worked out, and so I went to Millwall as my old teammate Billy Bonds was the first team coach there. That season with Millwall was difficult and very demanding, and then that Christmas the opportunity came to go back to Spurs, as Gerry Francis and Des Bulpin were both leaving the club. So I met Daniel Sugar in a hotel that was near to the Spurs training ground, which was now at Luxborough Lane, in Chigwell. And so me and Daniel shook hands, and so I was on board. Christian Gross was the manager at the time, and he was a really nice man, but he wasn’t there for long, before George Graham came in as manager. When I returned to Spurs they were changing the layout of the training ground, and so we had to train at a school. I had some good players then, even though the facilities there weren’t great, but it bonded us as a team. In my first game in charge I went in there not knowing any of the players, and so in the first half they’d been squabbling a little bit. So I told them all to have a go at me, if they were going to have a go at anybody, and if they did do that then they’d be in trouble. So the team changed their attitude for the second half.

Up front for my team in that first game was a tall and thin player, and then a defender playing at centre-half, and also a right-back who would get up and down the flank all day long, and who went on to play for England. So we’d been 2-0 down at half-time, and then in the second half we got a goal back. In the last minute of the game the tall and thin centre-forward scored an over-head kick into the top corner, and that of course was Peter Crouch. So all three of those players (Peter Crouch, Ledley King and Luke Young) all became England internationals. I think that that season we’d been undefeated, until we came up against Arsenal in a final at the end of the season. I’d picked a young team in that Under 19 league for that season, and so you had players like Alton Thelwell and Simon Cliss. So anyway, we’d lost 2-0 at home to Arsenal in the first leg of the final of this competition, and so I thought to myself that I had to change something. And so I went with a back three and two wing-backs. So we beat them 1-0, and Peter Crouch scored. If you’d won this particular trophy then you were invited to participate in the Dallas Cup, in America. Liam Brady was kind of the Academy director at Arsenal at the time, and he didn’t fancy competing in the tournament. So the Spurs Academy director at the time (Peter Suddaby) called me into the office and told me that we could compete in the Dallas Cup, which I thought would be great.

We got to the final of the Dallas Cup where we lost to Brazilian side Corinthians, who were a good side. So in two years we got to two finals. The development of the players stands in my mind as a coach. Sol Campbell went through to the first team during the first spell that I had at the club, and then there was Stephen Carr, Nicky Barmby and quite a few others who all made it to the first team. From my second spell that I had at Spurs, Ledley King obviously made it. Peter Crouch just wasn’t strong enough at the time, so he would later leave the club on loan, before leaving permanently. But he had a lot of ability, although he needed to improve in the air. However, Peter and the rest of the lads’ attitude was first class.

During your time at Spurs you would coach many very good players. What was it like to coach such quality players on a day to day basis?

Pat: It’s strange really, because when you’re working with them you don’t think about it so much. You know that they are talented players, but you can’t compare them until they’re playing on a match day. So you need to look at the strengths that the players have, and try to then improve their strengths, to add a little bit to what they’ve already got. It’s not always so easy with their weaknesses, as if they’re not so strong on their left foot then you could spend a year of them working on their left foot, while in that year you’ve wasted your right foot, and improving on that. If I had to put money on players making it at Spurs from the youth set-up then, then I would have said Stephen Carr, Ledley King and Sol Campbell. There are always surprises who make it and late developers. Luke Young was a very good player who had a great career in the game, as well as Peter Crouch. Alton Thelwell was another really good player who was a really nice guy, and also somebody who you could talk to as a man. There was also Danny Hill, who was really talented, but who just didn’t make it, as maybe he physically just missed out on making it. Johnnie Jackson was another really good player who joined Spurs as a schoolboy, and we included him in the Spurs youth squad that travelled to the Dallas Cup, and we gave him a bit of game time there.

I remember asking Johnnie Jackson who he supported one day. He told me that he supported Arsenal, and I was laughing as I told him that I’d supported Arsenal as a youngster. However, I told him that I didn’t support them as much then, as when I’d become a pro my heart went with the team that I was playing for. I also said to him that he’d hopefully find that out for himself one day. But Johnnie did really well at Spurs and in his later career as a player.

What was your time at Spurs like on the whole?

Pat: It was brilliant. To be honest with you I’ve always enjoyed coaching more than playing, and don’t get me wrong I loved playing, but I felt no pressure when I was coaching at Spurs, and I just felt comfortable coaching there. I had two spells at Spurs, and I think that all in all I was there for about 16 years. West Ham supporters will ask me what my best time in football was, and I’ll say it was when I was at Spurs! I loved coaching and I have great memories of my time at Spurs. We had the best indoor ball court at White Hart Lane in the day, and I have a great story from there. When I was doing Tuesday and Thursday training sessions I had a session on the Thursday evening and so I asked Paul Gascoigne whether he would watch the youth players training. He agreed and asked me what time he should turn up, and anyway I get there and he’s sitting in reception with his feet up, and he has his Spurs kit on. So up we go and I’d told him what we were doing for training, but he told me to have a match. Paul wanted to play in the game! In my mind I’m thinking that he’s playing for the first team on the Saturday, so I was worried that he’d get injured. Anyway, we were in the ball court for an hour, and at the end he signed every single autograph, which was just fantastic.

Were there any people at Spurs who you looked up to, during your time with the club as a coach?

Pat: Terry Venables was a force at the club, and he had great charisma. He was an excellent coach, and so he made a big impression on me, as did George Graham when he came to Spurs. I never got to see Christian Gross a lot, and then there were other managers such as Glenn Hoddle when he came to Spurs, and I knew his assistant John Gorman well. So I gelled with some managers and coaches more than others.

Are there any memories from your time at Spurs which really stand out to you?

Pat: I suppose when we won the FA Youth Cup against Middlesborough under Keith Waldon, was one. As I was a big part of that, and I went to all of the games in that cup run. Winning that was a great achievement, and Keith is a proud man. So just generally being part of the club was great and a lasting memory. Of course getting to finals was great, and in my first season with the Spurs youth side we won the South-East Counties League. We went to Millwall and won it and they had a big crowd there that day, and one of my players got involved with the crowd. I quickly went onto the pitch and told him to get off the pitch, as I could see that otherwise there was going to be a confrontation. But anyway we won the league that season which was great for me, because Spurs had been so prolific at winning the South-East Counties League, and so it was just nice to follow the history.

From your time with Spurs as a coach, and particularly as Youth Team manager, looking back which players really stood out to you for their technical ability and talent?

Pat: There was Sol Campbell, who I always thought was going to be a midfield player. He even played up front for one whole season, as we were short of a striker that season at youth level. I’d already asked him whether he’d be alright playing up front as a sub in a youth game, and he said yes. However, anyway he’d played five or so games for my Spurs youth team, before Keith Waldon promoted him to his youth side, because Ollie Morah had got injured, but I always thought that Sol was going to be a player. As was Stephen Carr, and I remember in a game against Norwich I asked him to push up the pitch, and he ended up winning us the game with two crosses. When I first went to Spurs, although it was Keith Waldon’s side, Darren Caskey, Nicky Barmby and Andy Turner all went on to play for the first team. I think that it was easier to make it back then, because now clubs are buying players who are already ready for the first team, and top international players. So now you’ve got to work so hard to get into the first team.

Were there any academy/youth players who didn’t play for the Spurs first team that you thought would have done, from your time there as a coach?

Pat: My best side was the side that had Ledley King in it, and I think that nine of that squad became players. However, going back to that team there was a lad called Ian Hillier, who was a great lad, but he didn’t have any pace. So I ended up playing him at right-back, and he was terrific. Then I had Ledley, and players like John Piercy, Alton Thelwell and David Lee, who all had good careers in the game. One player who did actually play for the first team at Spurs, but who I thought got everything too early, was Phil Ifil. I remember that David Kerslake was doing the evening training at Spurs, and he told me that he thought that he had a player. And while you’ve got to have confidence, I thought that Phil was a little bit too confident, and England had been telling him how good he was going to be. And he was similar to Ben Bowditch, who captained England right the way through at youth level. Ben had everything that you could at youth team level, but he just never made that next step. I felt disappointed for him, and the last time that I saw him was at Cambridge United versus a non-League side, and Ben was on the bench for the non-League side. Once they play at a good level you want them to do well.

I can also remember Mark Yeates once playing for us against West Ham, and Tony Carr asked me who my best player was, and I told him that it was Mark. So he put a player on him to mark him, and after half an hour of the game Mark Yeates came up to me saying how they were marking him, and asking me what he should do. So at half-time I told him to pass the ball out to the wide areas to create space for himself. Mark would go on to make the first team at Spurs. Another player who I liked was Jacques Maghoma, and I used to play him on the left as a winger. He was good at linking the play on that side of the pitch, but he had real ability to get into good areas. And he had a great career with Birmingham. 

What do you consider to be your greatest achievement/contribution in your time as a coach with Spurs?

Pat: Hopefully it was giving them some of my knowledge from being a player, and as a coach. Because it’s not all about what happens on the pitch, as it’s also about how you conduct yourself off it. I also wanted to keep my distance as well from them, as from Monday to Saturday I can look, coach and guide, but after that it is their time as players. Some made mistakes, but a lot of them didn’t. So I think that’s an important part of the social side of being a coach.

The Spurs Academy group of the early 2000’s had a very talented group of players.  What do you remember of that group of players, and their success as a team?

Pat: Things started to change a little bit in the 2000s, as the reserve team coach wanted to take players off of you to build their numbers up as a squad. But that early 2000’s side were a good side with good players. It’s all about what you produce in football, and I can remember Norwich winning the FA Youth Cup one year and not one player got into their first team. The hardest thing is when you sense that the young players aren’t going to make it, and you’ve got to learn to tell them that at some stage. Christmas time was always hard, because we were basically making our minds up as to where this player was going to go. I remember Terry Venables asking me what my thoughts were on coming out of the youth side at 19. And I told him that I thought that it was a grey area, because a lot of players develop slowly, some physically and some mentally. Some players get some more self belief in that year, and you can regret them leaving the club or being released. So I said that if we were in any doubt then we should give the player a pro contract. Winning is also very important for young players, because you need that winning mentality as in the next step-up there are only four or so spaces to get in, and if you’re not in one of them then you’ve got to drop out. So you’ve got to help the players to be as mentally strong as they can.

What would your advice be to the Spurs Academy players of today, as they look to make it in the game?

Pat: I think that the first and most important thing is that when you walk into the training ground on a Monday, that you need to work hard. You can have laughs, but once you get onto that training pitch your focus needs to be on what you are doing, as that’s really important. Obviously I was big on behaviour and discipline, because you want to remind them that they are professional footballers. These players have also got to watch the first team, because sometimes they don’t and that amazes me, as that’s where they want to be. So giving 100% in everything you do in training and in matches is so important. 

After all these years how do you look back on your time with Spurs? And are they a club that you still hold close to your heart?

Pat: I have great memories of my time at Spurs, and I met many players who went onto have great careers in the game, as well as players who didn’t, but they were good people. I have good memories of the players who made it and also good memories of the ones who didn’t make it, because some of those players’ attitude was first class.